CREATIVE DISCIPLINE: Good Bones Maggie Smith & Ryan Holiday

Here are the top 10 key takeaways from the conversation between poet Maggie Smith and Ryan Holiday on the creative process, artistic discipline, and balancing craft with humanity.

1. Restraint in art brings meaning

Restraint and constraint are fundamental to creating meaningful art. While many people think of art as free-flowing and unrestrained, both speakers emphasize that limitations actually make art more powerful.

The poet Terence Hayes is quoted saying it's "cool if you can break dance, but it's even cooler if you can break dance in a straight jacket." This concept applies across creative disciplines. The constraints of form, whether in poetry, prose, or other mediums, force artists to be more creative and deliberate in their work. When artists can't rely on the first solution that comes to mind, they must solve creative problems within boundaries.

2. Revision is largely about cutting

The conversation highlights how good writing often emerges through the process of removing unnecessary elements. Both speakers agree that when they revise their work, it typically shrinks rather than grows.

Writers must be ruthless with their own work, cutting anything superfluous. This process involves identifying what is essential and removing everything else. Though writers "sweat for every word," there's satisfaction in trimming content that doesn't serve the core purpose. The goal is to leave only "muscle and bone," creating work where everything present has a clear purpose and nothing feels like filler.

3. Starting strong hooks the audience

Both speakers emphasize the importance of eliminating "throat clearing" or wheel-spinning at the beginning of creative work. They discuss how many writers spend pages warming up before finding their rhythm, but readers don't need to witness this process.

Social media has taught creators to grab attention immediately. The first sentence should be compelling, not just setting the stage. Both agree that if they find themselves skimming their own work, that's a sign it needs editing. The conversation references Fitzgerald and Hemingway discussing how one should cut introductory chapters that merely explain characters instead of starting with action.

4. Creative resistance leads to growth

The speakers discuss how external resistance and editorial guidance are essential for creating great work. As writers become more successful, they often receive less critical feedback, which can be detrimental to their growth.

Holiday mentions arguing with his publisher because they were "rubber stamping" his work rather than providing substantive feedback. He compares this to how elite athletes voluntarily subject themselves to demanding coaches. The best work comes from tension and resistance, not from comfort or complete freedom. Both agree that praise can be more dangerous than criticism for creative development.

5. All first drafts are messy

The conversation acknowledges the universal truth that all initial creative work is imperfect. Referencing Hemingway's quote that "the first draft of everything is shit," they emphasize that this applies to everyone, regardless of experience or success.

This reality is both humbling and liberating. No writer, no matter how accomplished, escapes the messy first draft phase. Understanding this can help new writers avoid discouragement when their initial attempts don't match their vision. The creative process necessarily involves uncertainty, confusion, and periods where the creator doesn't know if the work will come together.

6. Balancing art with humanity

Both speakers stress the importance of maintaining one's humanity while pursuing creative work. They critique the romanticized notion of the "art monster" who sacrifices all other aspects of life for their craft.

Smith discusses how she balances being a writer with being a single parent. Rather than seeing family obligations as impediments to her work, she views them as integral to her identity and subject matter. Holiday agrees, noting that it's more impressive when someone can excel at their craft while still being a decent, well-rounded person. They both reject the idea that greatness requires sacrificing relationships or responsibilities.

7. Writing routines should be adaptable

The conversation challenges conventional wisdom about rigid writing routines. Smith explains why traditional writing routines don't work for her as a primary caregiver and how she's developed a more flexible approach to her craft.

Rather than adhering to a fixed schedule, Smith writes whenever she can—during her children's naps, in carpool lines, or late at night. Holiday suggests having "routines plural" that adapt to different circumstances. They note that the celebrated routines of many famous writers relied on privilege and support systems that allowed for uninterrupted creative time. Adaptable routines demonstrate more discipline than rigid ones because they require finding opportunities within constraints.

8. Ethical considerations in writing

The conversation explores the ethics of writing about real people and events. Both speakers discuss the responsibility writers have to consider how their work affects others, particularly when writing memoir or personal essays.

Smith mentions that when working on her memoir, she was mindful of boundaries and protecting people in her life who hadn't consented to being characters in her book. Holiday shares how meeting the son of someone he'd written about changed his approach to writing about historical and living figures. They agree that the artist's obligation isn't solely to truth or audience but also to treating subjects with dignity and complexity.

9. Hope is essential for creation

The podcast emphasizes that creative work requires hope. Smith states plainly: "I don't think you can create things without hope." This perspective frames creativity as an inherently optimistic act.

The conversation references Smith's poem "Good Bones," which became widely shared during difficult times. While the poem acknowledges the world's problems, it also insists on seeing possibilities for improvement. Both speakers agree that cynicism is a form of cowardice, while hope requires courage. Creation involves believing that something worthwhile can emerge from effort and imagination.

10. Embracing earnestness over cynicism

The speakers advocate for sincerity and earnestness in an age where cynicism is often considered cooler or more sophisticated. They suggest there's courage in caring deeply about things rather than maintaining ironic distance.

Holiday quotes that "cynicism is cowardice," while Smith notes that being enthusiastic about anything is considered "deeply uncool." Both agree this is a dangerous mindset. The conversation connects this to parenting, art, and civic engagement, suggesting that meaningful action and creation require genuine investment. They conclude that while being earnest may be less fashionable, it's necessary for making anything of value.