STOP Setting Goals | Olympian Alexi Pappas & Ryan Holiday
Here are the top 10 key takeaways from Ryan Holiday and Olympian Alexi Pappas's conversation about redefining success beyond traditional goal-setting.
1. Focus on inputs instead of outputs
In their conversation, Ryan and Alexi discuss how focusing on inputs rather than outputs leads to a more fulfilling life. Ryan explains that when we fixate on outcomes—like winning medals or publishing books—we become vulnerable because we don't control those results. External achievements depend on many factors beyond our influence.
Alexi shares how she transitioned from being "90% outcome oriented and 10% process" to the reverse. This shift allowed her to enjoy the day-to-day experience of her work rather than just chasing end results. When we concentrate on inputs—the work we put in, the process, the daily practice—we engage with what we can actually control, making our efforts more meaningful and sustainable.
2. Becoming "goalless" as a path to authenticity
The conversation explores how moving away from rigid external goals allows people to connect with their authentic nature. Alexi describes a goalless life as being like "an adventurer in a yummy rainforest" wearing a backpack full of experiences, knowledge, and values. It's about exploration rather than achievement.
Ryan explains how he's been "working hard to have no goals," which doesn't mean he doesn't work diligently or strive to improve. Instead, it means he's no longer fixated on metrics like bestseller lists or financial rewards. This approach creates space for creativity and personal growth that might be stifled by strictly pursuing predetermined outcomes. The speakers agree this mindset helps them stay true to their authentic selves rather than molding themselves to external expectations.
3. The value of mentorship beyond formal relationships
Both speakers share a nuanced understanding of mentorship that goes beyond formal arrangements. Alexi emphasizes that "mentor is not a job title. It's an exchange. It's a relationship that comes from feeling that you're changed by somebody." This perspective expands the concept to include people who may not even know they're mentors to you.
Ryan references Marcus Aurelius's "Meditations," pointing out how the first section is dedicated to acknowledging what he learned from significant people in his life. Many of these lessons weren't explicitly taught but absorbed through observation. This approach to mentorship is abundant rather than limiting, allowing people to learn from others without necessarily having direct access to them. Both agree that meaningful mentorship often changes how you think rather than just what you do.
4. Parental wisdom in giving space for self-discovery
Alexi shares how her father's approach to parenting allowed her to find her own path. When she was kicked off her high school running team (despite being extremely talented), her father didn't force her to focus solely on running. Instead, he gave her space to pursue multiple interests including soccer, theater, and student government.
This approach proved wise as Alexi eventually returned to running on her own terms. When she struggled upon returning, her father encouraged her with simple advice: "just keep trying." Ryan notes how this exemplifies the difference between telling someone what to do versus helping them discover what they want and showing them how to achieve it. This parenting style creates intrinsic motivation rather than external pressure, which proves more sustainable in the long run.
5. The power of asking good questions
Throughout their conversation, both speakers highlight how asking the right questions can be more valuable than giving direct answers. Alexi recounts how her father helped her make a crucial career decision by asking simple but clarifying questions like "Do you want to make ads for a living?" and "What do you want to do?" These questions helped her realize her true priority was reaching the Olympics.
Ryan compares this approach to Queen Elizabeth's influence style—having immense influence without direct power by asking questions that revealed problems or raised important issues. This technique works in various relationships: parents with children, editors with writers, coaches with athletes. By asking good questions, we can help others gain clarity about their own values and goals without imposing our views. This creates alignment rather than resistance.
6. Understanding the importance of the present moment
The podcast reveals how both speakers have learned to stay present rather than getting caught up in past regrets or future anxieties. Ryan shares an anecdote about rushing his eight-year-old son on a Saturday, only to have his child remind him: "Dad, we've got nothing to do and nowhere to be." This moment made Ryan realize he was unnecessarily creating stress when they could simply enjoy the present.
Alexi discusses how athletes often struggle with this concept, getting stuck "not being in the chapter they're in." She gives the example of athletes who need to switch from focusing on fitness to focusing on health when injured, but resist making this mental shift. Both agree that being fully present in whatever you're currently doing—whether writing, parenting, or training—leads to better outcomes and greater satisfaction than constantly thinking ahead to the next phase.
7. Distinguishing between nature and nurture in personal development
Alexi introduces an interesting distinction between operating from one's "nature" versus "nurture." She describes how pursuing Olympic goals required her to be heavily in her "nurture"—crafting herself into a specialized machine, growing specific muscles, following rigid training protocols. In contrast, moving away from external goals allows more exploration of one's "nature"—how one would naturally move and experience the world without external pressures.
This framework offers a way to understand the tension between achievement and authenticity. When we're constantly in "nurture" mode, we may accomplish impressive feats but potentially at the cost of being disconnected from our natural inclinations. Both speakers suggest that a more balanced approach—one that honors both our capacity for discipline and our natural tendencies—leads to more sustainable fulfillment and creative expression.
8. The challenge of receiving and interpreting feedback
Ryan and Alexi discuss how feedback can be misinterpreted when there's misalignment about fundamental goals. Ryan shares his frustration with book editors who give feedback without understanding what he's trying to accomplish: "How can you give me notes if you don't know what I'm trying to do?" This reflects a common problem where feedback-givers assume they know the creator's intent without asking clarifying questions.
Alexi shares a powerful story about receiving a harsh review criticizing her "flat chest and freakishly gnarled feet" in her first movie. Rather than being hurt, she realized the reviewer's discomfort was actually evidence that her creative vision was successful—the character was supposed to feel uncomfortable in her body. Both agree that when you have clarity about your own vision, criticism that misunderstands your intention can actually be confirmation you've succeeded on your own terms.
9. Balancing multiple interests and identities
The conversation touches on the value of pursuing multiple interests rather than narrow specialization. Alexi describes how in high school she was punished for being a multi-sport athlete who also participated in theater and student government. Her running coaches insisted she focus exclusively on running, while her father supported her diverse interests.
This approach ultimately proved beneficial, as Alexi describes having "gone through puberty super normally" because she wasn't subjecting herself to the sometimes harmful training regimens that young female runners endure. Ryan connects this to the idea that rigidly pursuing a single goal can be limiting. Both suggest that maintaining multiple interests and identities creates resilience and allows for more authentic self-expression, even if it sometimes means sacrificing peak performance in any one area.
10. The role of internal clarity in external success
The speakers emphasize how internal clarity about your own values and vision creates resilience in the face of external judgments. When you know what you're trying to accomplish—not just what you're hoping to achieve—you can navigate criticism and setbacks more effectively. This clarity becomes an internal compass that guides decision-making regardless of external pressure.
Ryan illustrates this with an example about critics who state negatively exactly what he set out to do: "People say, 'All Ryan is doing is taking ideas from the Stoics and connecting them with stories from history,'" which is precisely his intention. Alexi similarly found clarity by asking herself what truly mattered in her career decisions. Both suggest that this internal clarity isn't about abandoning ambition but rather about ensuring your efforts align with your authentic values and vision rather than externally imposed standards.