How to Breathe Out Fear with freediver Li Karlsen | A Bit of Optimism Podcast

Here are the top 10 key takeaways from Simon Sinek's conversation with professional freediver Li Karlsen about breathing techniques, fear management, and personal transformation.

1. Courage is about staying calm rather than bravado

Courage isn't about acting tough or showing off. It's about maintaining composure when everything in your body wants to panic. This is particularly evident in Li Karlsen's approach to freediving, where staying calm is literally a matter of life and death.

The conversation begins with this fundamental insight about courage. When freediving at depths of 240 feet or more, panicking leads to death. Li demonstrates true courage by facing her fears methodically and learning to control her physiological responses. This redefinition of courage as calmness rather than fearlessness offers a powerful framework for approaching challenges in any context.

2. Breathing properly can manage fear and stress

The most practical takeaway from the conversation is that conscious breathing techniques can dramatically reduce stress and fear. Specifically, taking short inhalations through the nose followed by longer exhalations helps activate the parasympathetic nervous system, creating a calming effect.

Li explains that most people breathe incorrectly, especially when stressed, which perpetuates anxiety. By breathing through the nose using the diaphragm (rib cage expansion) and exhaling longer than inhaling, anyone can shift their nervous system response. This technique doesn't require special conditions or equipment - it can be done anywhere, from meetings to bus stations, making it an accessible tool for managing daily stress.

3. Carbon dioxide buildup triggers anxiety, not lack of oxygen

A surprising insight from the conversation is that our urge to breathe and associated panic doesn't come from needing oxygen but from needing to expel carbon dioxide. When we hold our breath, it's the accumulation of CO2 that creates discomfort and panic, not the depletion of oxygen.

Understanding this physiological mechanism changes how we should approach anxiety management. Instead of focusing on "taking deep breaths" to get more oxygen in (which most people already have sufficient levels of), we should concentrate on effective exhalation to remove CO2. This knowledge explains why longer exhalations are more calming than deeper inhalations during moments of stress.

4. Freedom exists beyond mental limitations

Li describes how freediving has taught her that extraordinary freedom awaits on the other side of mental barriers. She initially feared the ocean's depths but discovered profound tranquility once she pushed through her psychological limits.

When describing her experience at depth, Li uses words like "solitude" rather than "loneliness," suggesting a peaceful state rather than an isolated one. This psychological insight applies beyond diving - many of our perceived limitations are mental constructs that, when overcome, reveal unexpected freedom and possibility. The challenge is recognizing when fear serves as protection versus when it simply restricts potential.

5. Bidirectional relationship between physiology and psychology

The conversation reveals how our physical state influences our mental state and vice versa in a continuous feedback loop. Li explains that not only does fear cause stressed breathing, but stressed breathing can create fear when none is justified.

This insight has profound implications for managing emotional states. By controlling breathing (a physical response), we can influence our mental state. Similarly, by addressing thought patterns, we can affect physical responses. This bidirectional relationship gives us multiple entry points for breaking negative emotional cycles. Understanding this connection provides practical tools for emotional regulation beyond conventional cognitive approaches.

6. We can only control our inner environment, not external circumstances

Li emphasizes that while we cannot control what happens around us, we always retain control over our internal state. This stoic philosophy resonates with Viktor Frankl's observations from concentration camps about the freedom to choose one's response to circumstances.

The practical application comes through breathing. Unlike abstract concepts of "changing mindset," controlling breath provides a concrete, physical action that creates a sense of agency. This approach is particularly valuable during chaotic or stressful situations when external control is impossible. By focusing inward on breath, we establish a foundation of stability regardless of outside circumstances.

7. Facing fears directly leads to personal transformation

Li's journey illustrates how confronting fears head-on can lead to profound personal growth. Rather than avoiding her fear of getting trapped under ice, she intentionally pursued an under-ice freediving record as a way to overcome this limitation.

This approach transformed not just her diving ability but her entire personality. She describes shifting from being rigid, anxious, and controlling ("captain Lee") to someone more balanced, playful, and at peace. The act of deliberately confronting her deepest fear, though extremely dangerous, resolved emotional blockages that affected all areas of her life. This suggests that sometimes the most direct path through fear, though difficult, may be the most transformative.

8. Freediving as meditation with consequences

Li describes freediving as a form of "extreme meditation" where the stakes are life and death. Unlike conventional meditation where mistakes have few consequences, freediving creates immediate feedback about mental state because panic can be fatal.

This heightened awareness leads to mastery of physiological responses that more casual practices might not achieve. The conversation suggests that introducing meaningful stakes (though not necessarily life-threatening ones) to mindfulness practices might accelerate learning. By treating stress management as essential rather than optional, Li developed expertise that transfers to all aspects of life.

9. Unresolved trauma creates invisible barriers to progress

Li describes hitting a performance "wall" at 60 meters depth that was caused by emotional rather than physical limitations. She discovered that unprocessed trauma from military service and other life experiences manifested as physical pressure in her chest, limiting her diving capacity.

This insight demonstrates how psychological baggage can create concrete limitations in seemingly unrelated domains. Only by addressing her unresolved emotional issues could Li progress beyond this barrier. This suggests that plateaus in performance or personal growth may sometimes signal the need for emotional processing rather than just technical improvement or additional effort.

10. Less can be more when managing life's challenges

The conversation concludes with the philosophical insight that dealing with stress is often about removing burdens rather than adding capabilities. Just as freediving requires exhaling carbon dioxide rather than inhaling more oxygen, life improvement often requires letting go rather than acquiring more.

Li suggests that people frequently "choose stress" by fighting unnecessary battles within themselves. By focusing on what can be released or simplified, rather than what needs to be added or improved, we create space for natural thriving. This perspective offers a counterbalance to achievement-oriented thinking, suggesting that wellbeing sometimes requires subtraction rather than addition.