Moral Courage with Diane Foley | A Bit of Optimism Podcast
Here are the top 10 key takeaways from Diane Foley's conversation with Simon Sinek, revealing lessons on forgiveness, moral courage, and our shared humanity in the face of unspeakable tragedy.
1. The journey from grief to forgiveness
Diane Foley's path toward meeting Alexander Kotey, one of her son's captors, wasn't immediate. It took seven years after Jim's death before she felt ready for this encounter. The initial stages of her grief were marked by shock, anger, and a sense of betrayal, particularly toward the government's handling of her son's situation.
Time played a crucial role in her healing process. When Kotey pleaded guilty to all charges and offered to speak with victims, Diane felt her son would have wanted her to hear him out. Despite family opposition, she proceeded with these meetings, finding an unexpected connection with someone she had every reason to hate. Her faith and Jim's legacy of courage provided the foundation for this difficult but healing encounter.
2. The humanizing power of dialogue
During their meetings, Diane experienced what she describes as "a grace." Despite initial awkwardness, once they began talking, the tension eased. She found Kotey to be a good listener, and she tried to reciprocate. He showed her pictures of his family - three little girls in a Syrian refugee camp - and she shared stories about who Jim really was.
This exchange created a human connection where previously there had only been labels: terrorist and victim's mother. Kotey expressed remorse for her suffering, though he still justified his actions as part of a war against Western influence. The experience reinforced Diane's belief that listening to those who hate or strongly disagree with us is essential. These interactions demonstrate that hate is never the answer and that understanding begins with genuine dialogue.
3. The duality of human nature
Diane expressed a profound insight about human nature during the conversation. She acknowledged that while we all have goodness within us, we simultaneously possess a negative side capable of terrible actions. This duality exists in everyone, including those who commit horrific acts.
The recognition of this shared humanity forms a cornerstone of Diane's philosophy. She believes our collective goal should be to nurture the good in ourselves and others. Jim believed everyone has "a bit of the divine" that can be brought out through caring and attentive listening. This perspective allows us to see both the capacity for evil and the potential for redemption in every person.
4. The foundation of moral courage
Faith plays a central role in Diane's ability to face extraordinary challenges. She describes being "blessed from the time I was young with a faith in a higher power." This spiritual foundation, combined with Jim's example of courage and goodness, prepared her for the difficult journey ahead.
Simon points out that moral courage seems "desperately lacking" in today's world. Diane suggests this deficit stems partly from increasing secularization and a diminished emphasis on values like listening to one another. The conversation highlights how moral courage doesn't require grand gestures but begins with seemingly small acts like truly hearing someone with whom we disagree or acknowledging our shared humanity despite profound differences.
5. The personal impact of institutional failure
Diane's experience with government agencies during her son's captivity left her deeply disillusioned. She describes being "sent in circles" and essentially "patronized and lied to" by officials who didn't know how to handle her situation. The absence of any dedicated hostage recovery framework meant there was no clear path forward.
This institutional failure fueled Diane's determination to create change. Her anger transformed into advocacy, leading to the creation of the James W. Foley Legacy Foundation. Since 2014, the foundation has helped facilitate the return of 122 Americans held abroad. While still "far from perfect," this represents significant progress toward ensuring other families don't face the same systemic abandonment Diane experienced.
6. The mission of promoting moral courage
The Foley Foundation focuses on three key areas: prioritizing the return of Americans taken hostage or wrongfully detained abroad, improving safety for journalists and international travelers, and inspiring moral courage. Simon notes that while the first two missions are specific to travelers abroad, the third - promoting moral courage - is universal and urgently needed in today's divided society.
Diane agrees with Simon's observation that moral courage might actually be the primary purpose of her organization. Though the foundation addresses niche concerns like hostage recovery, its broader message about standing up for what's right resonates with many supporters. The practical applications of hostage advocacy and journalist safety serve as vehicles for the more fundamental mission of teaching and demonstrating moral courage.
7. The limits of justification in the face of suffering
When discussing Alexander Kotey's perspective, Diane explains he justified his actions as part of a war against Western oppression and arrogance. In his view, the captives represented everything wrong with Western nations. Kotey didn't see Jim and others as individuals but as symbols of American policies he despised.
Diane challenges this rationalization by pointing to the consequences of such thinking. She argues that regardless of one's claimed motivations, actions that result in widespread suffering cannot truly be for the greater good. The "fruits" or results of these actions reveal their true nature. While someone may believe they're on the side of right, the human cost of their choices reveals a deeper truth about the morality of their cause.
8. The lost art of listening in modern society
Simon and Diane discuss how technology and changing social patterns have eroded our capacity for deep listening. Quick digital interactions have replaced meaningful conversations, contributing to our collective inability to hear different perspectives with empathy and openness.
Diane suggests that our electronic devices may have "taken us away from just having deep conversations with one another." This technological shift, combined with increased polarization, has diminished our ability to listen to opposing viewpoints. The podcast conversation itself demonstrates the value of thoughtful dialogue, as both participants listen attentively and build upon each other's insights rather than simply waiting for their turn to speak.
9. The search for meaning in community
Simon observes that people still desperately want to believe in something and belong to a "belief community." As traditional religious institutions have lost relevance for many, people seek alternative communities organized around political movements, social causes, or shared grievances. These communities provide a sense of belonging but often lack the moral guidance that traditionally came from faith traditions.
Diane notes that many of these movements are "fueled by fear, anger... alienation from one another." Unlike faith communities at their best, which promote care for others and sacrificial love, these alternative communities often reinforce division and self-righteousness. Both agree that this represents a significant shift in how people find meaning and connection, with concerning implications for social cohesion.
10. The transformative power of human connection
Throughout the conversation, Diane returns to the theme of human connection as a force for positive change. She describes how strangers stepped forward after Jim's death to offer help, how even a meeting with her son's captor contained moments of genuine human recognition, and how working together makes positive change possible.
This perspective informs her life's work. Diane emphasizes that meaningful progress comes through collaboration: "Good things aren't possible without one another. We can't do anything alone." Her foundation's success in changing how the U.S. handles hostage situations demonstrates this principle. By bringing together diverse stakeholders, including government officials, former hostages, and concerned citizens, they created systemic change that no individual could have accomplished alone.