Thinking About Thinking with Brené Brown and Adam Grant | A Bit of Optimism Podcast
Here are the top 10 key takeaways from Simon Sinek's conversation with Brené Brown and Adam Grant on the "A Bit of Optimism" podcast.
1. Energy management through grace and action
Managing low energy is something everyone struggles with at times. Brené Brown emphasized the importance of listening to your body and moving through difficult days with grace for yourself. This self-compassion extends to showing grace when others are experiencing low energy moments.
Adam Grant offered a different perspective on energy management. He suggested that taking action can actually create energy, rather than only thinking we need energy to take action. Simple physical activities like jumping jacks or brief exercise can stimulate adrenaline and help boost energy levels when feeling depleted. Simon tested this in real-time during the podcast and felt more energized afterward.
2. Starting meetings with check-ins
Brené shared that her organization begins every meeting with a "two-word check-in" where participants describe their current state using just two words. This practice emerged during COVID and has continued because it creates space for honesty and humanity in professional settings. Even in formal meetings with external parties like lawyers, this check-in helps establish psychological safety.
The check-in serves as a "grace generator" because it allows participants to acknowledge where they really are emotionally and mentally. For leaders, it doesn't create an obligation to fix problems mentioned during check-ins but creates an opportunity for follow-up conversations later. The simple question "What does support from me look like today?" was highlighted as particularly effective after learning someone is struggling.
3. Self-awareness requires situational awareness
Simon introduced the idea that self-awareness actually stems from situational awareness. It's difficult to look inward objectively, but easier to read a room and observe how others respond to our behaviors. For example, recognizing when you talk too much in meetings often comes from noticing others' reactions rather than internal reflection.
People who lack situational awareness often have inaccurate self-perceptions. Adam mentioned an emotional intelligence expert who embarrassed someone in a meeting by misreading and inappropriately commenting on their facial expression, demonstrating how even those who study emotional intelligence can fail at reading situations properly. The discussion emphasized that without the ability to assess context and others' reactions, true self-awareness remains limited.
4. Reflected best self exercise
Adam described the "reflected best self" exercise created by researchers Laura Morgan Roberts and Jane Dutton. This approach involves reaching out to 15-20 people across different areas of your life and asking them to share stories about times when you were at your best. The process reveals patterns about your strengths from others' perspectives, often highlighting qualities you don't recognize in yourself.
This exercise demonstrates that people have positive blind spots, not just negative ones. Adam shared his personal experience with the exercise, including how he initially resisted it by instead telling others stories of when they were at their best. When he eventually did the exercise, he learned that his memory was a strength others valued, something he had taken for granted. This realization led him to use that strength more intentionally, like memorizing MBA students' names to build rapport more effectively.
5. Humility and mental toughness
Through her research on mental toughness, Brené discovered that humility is the primary predictor variable that coaches, scouts, and trainers look for. Many professionals who require mental toughness in others don't believe they can develop it in people lacking humility. Bob Galer's definition of humility resonated with the group: "Don't confuse humility with weakness. Humility is being open to the ideas of others."
Simon added that humility is closely connected to recognizing we don't live alone in the world. People who demonstrate mental toughness are often more afraid of letting down their comrades than dying themselves. Adam suggested that the right combination is "being secure enough in your strengths to see your weaknesses." The group agreed that competence requires humility, as recognizing limitations is essential for growth and openness to others' perspectives.
6. Metacognition as a foundation for awareness
Metacognition—the ability to think about one's own thinking—emerged as a critical concept throughout the conversation. Brené suggested that self-awareness, anticipatory awareness, and situational awareness all belong to metacognition. This ability to step back and critically examine our thought processes helps prevent overestimation or underestimation of our capabilities.
The conversation explored how metacognition might be the foundation for humility and self-awareness. Adam described it as having "the wisdom to exercise judgment about your own judgment." While Simon questioned whether the standard needed to be that high, suggesting that simply recognizing others exist might be sufficient, both Brené and Adam maintained that metacognition is necessary for true awareness of how our behaviors impact others and for developing genuine humility.
7. Values alignment and behavior
The group discussed how our deepest values are often revealed when we're angry or upset, rather than when things go well. Adam described an exercise where he asks students to analyze patterns behind situations where they got angry, consistently finding that anger emerges when values are threatened. This provides insight into what we truly care about, which might differ from what we claim to value.
Brené shared that in her research, she found transformational leaders typically have just two core values that guide everything they do. When working with leaders, she helps them identify these two essential values and then operationalize them into observable behaviors. She emphasized that values mean nothing if they aren't translated into actions. The process often leads to a grief-like recognition of misalignment between claimed values and actual behavior, creating a powerful opportunity for authentic growth.
8. Compliance versus commitment
Brené introduced the critical distinction between compliance and commitment, initially framing it through parenting but extending it to leadership. In early parenting, the focus is on compliance—children following rules because parents say so. However, as children grow, the emphasis must shift toward commitment—following values because they've internalized them.
Adam referenced research on Holocaust rescuers that supported this distinction. Those who risked their lives to rescue Jews were more likely to have been raised with explanations rather than consequences when they misbehaved. This approach helped them internalize ethical principles rather than just following authority. The same principle applies to leadership—teams operating within values out of compliance rather than commitment creates fragile organizational cultures that break down under pressure.
9. The impact of shame versus empathy
The conversation explored how shame undermines empathy while explanation builds it. When people experience shame for their actions, they become self-focused, making it difficult to consider others' perspectives. Brené emphasized that "shame corrodes empathy" because shame creates such intense self-focus that connection with others becomes impossible.
Punishment-based approaches often generate shame, while explanation-based approaches tend to cultivate guilt—recognizing a behavior was wrong without internalizing that wrongness as part of identity. The group discussed how this applies to leadership, with Simon highlighting Boeing as an example where incentives rewarded self-focused behaviors and punished prosocial ones. The focus shifted to the distinction between actions taken to protect reputation versus improve character, with the former being shame-driven and the latter more conducive to growth.
10. Different expressions of narcissism
The group explored different manifestations of narcissism, distinguishing between grandiose narcissism (displaying superiority and entitlement) and vulnerable narcissism (fear of criticism and quiet self-focus). Brené defined narcissism as "the shame-based fear of being ordinary," noting that narcissistic behaviors are often deeply rooted in shame rather than genuine self-confidence.
Both types of narcissism stem from self-focus but express differently, with vulnerable narcissism potentially being more damaging in leadership contexts because it's less visible. Adam suggested that grandiose narcissism can be a double-edged sword, sometimes enabling extraordinary achievements while leading to dangerous overconfidence. The concept of "humble narcissism" emerged—maintaining confidence in one's vision while remaining open to input. The group concluded that any form of self-absorption becomes toxic in leadership positions.